tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post3600304038106138834..comments2023-10-05T10:29:39.439+01:00Comments on Catholic Collar And Tie: Re-visiting Forward Together in Hope -or into lamentationAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09049074568745678686noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-83683735327771102542017-02-22T00:48:47.525+00:002017-02-22T00:48:47.525+00:00Thanks Chris,
Yes, the problem of being liberal or...Thanks Chris,<br />Yes, the problem of being liberal or progressive or Traditional is ubiquitous and, I think, is greatly disturbing. WE cannot all be simply Catholic however until we all remain faithful to the Deposit of Faith handed on by the Apostles without trying to change the faith in line with social trends, and celebrate liturgy for the glory of God rather than engender a feel-good reaction in the people. Currently, Doctrine is weakened by attempts to modify it to suit today's social trends, and liturgy is celebrated to with the affirmation of the community uppermost in mind. Liturgy by the rubrics, and doctrine according to the catechism and the 21 Councils and we will all be Catholic again. Roll on the day!<br />God Bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-56567064795011835092017-02-21T21:09:24.896+00:002017-02-21T21:09:24.896+00:00We do have a clearly defined role as per the norms...We do have a clearly defined role as per the norms set out by the magiesterium. I do agree that Ushaw was not the best place to foster my vocation, this was as much to do with the students as the staff. There were people who appeared untouchable despite ignoring the programme. One of your statements highlights my problem "progressive liberal ", why can't we just be catholics rather than liberal, traditional, sspx fssp etc etcAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09702818723386019249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-87996925893153443982017-02-20T13:20:09.605+00:002017-02-20T13:20:09.605+00:00Hi Chris,
I would expect the syllabus to cover the...Hi Chris,<br />I would expect the syllabus to cover the subjects you list, but I suspect it is taught in as progressive (read 'liberal') as what it was in Ushaw, which could be said (politely) to have been less than entirely faithful to the defined teaching of the Church and its disciplines: question the college and one was likely to find oneself out the door; question Rome and one was more likely applauded as 'moving the Church forward'. <br />We can agree that we need to foster vocations; my problem with how the permanent diaconate is curently going is precisely that it has "a foot in both camps"; which is to be neither one thing nor the other; a non-entity' space. That the Church is, as you say, factionalised is to be deeply regretted: factions indicate wounds (lacerations) to the Mystical Body of Christ. Once all Catholics knew what we taught even if they did not all take the trouble to find out why; now we don't seem to know what we teach -at least the progressive wing doesn't; those of us who hold to the Tradition of the Church still know what we believe and why -and how to celebrate it in both liturgy and pastoral care. I don't see that in the day to day life of the 'progressive' Catholic: doctrine is open to change rather than authentic development, and discipline a matter of subjective conscience -to the point where the discipline surrounding even the Divine Law of 'Thou shalt not commit adultery' is being subjected to personal conscience by some clergy at even the highest levels, as the debate around Amoris Laetitia demonstrates.<br />God Bless you (and yours).Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-65801115632892304142017-02-19T11:40:37.964+00:002017-02-19T11:40:37.964+00:00God bless you too Fr Gary, our training is a mixtu...God bless you too Fr Gary, our training is a mixture of theology, sacramentology, prayer, reflection and hands on pastoral experience as the ministry suggests. We are being trained to serve our ordinary and our parish community, with, to coin a phrase "a foot in both camps".<br />I agree we need to foster more vocations but at present we have a very factionalised church, we no longer seem to be the catholics of my youth, but traditionalists, liberals etc.<br />I think St Paul warns us against this.<br />Kind regards<br />ChrisAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09702818723386019249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-17626460841389312852017-02-19T10:20:17.856+00:002017-02-19T10:20:17.856+00:00Hello Chris! I hope you are well.
I should make it...Hello Chris! I hope you are well.<br />I should make it clear that I don't think the Diaconate is an extension of lay ministry, but I fear it is going to be used that way. Let’s be honest, to eliminate the presbyterate from projects designed to re-invigorate the Church (and most of them I have seen or heard of focus on promoting lay ministry and contain no emphasis on encouraging vocations to the priesthood) we will come to an end point where there are Bishops, deacons and laity -and herein lies the idea of Diaconate as an extension of lay ministry: laity and deacons can both administer baptism and preside at funeral, marriage and 'Liturgy of the Word with distribution of Holy communion' services. In the present discipline of the Church laity cannot preach, but apart from that and bestowing blessings, what we see is an elimination of the presbyterate in favour of lay ministry and the limited ministry of the deacon.<br />As to the quality of training deacons appear to be getting, I cannot comment as my experience of them is minimal, though I suspect it is very much along the lines we suffered in seminary: minimalism of the sacred and the questioning of defined doctrine under the guise of academic freedom. The idea that there is a chair of the magisterium and a chair of the theologians is nonsense: theologians may propose, but the magisterium disposes, and in the case of defined doctrine the Church has already disposed -even Francis cannot teach in contradiction to what has already been defined: there is no new revelation since the death of the last apostle; the Pope's role is simply to guard, promote and explain the faith he has received.<br />God Bless Chris!Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-12959826214507104492017-02-18T20:37:07.192+00:002017-02-18T20:37:07.192+00:00Thanks for your reply Fr Gary, we were colleagues ...Thanks for your reply Fr Gary, we were colleagues at Ushaw 1989-1991 and Iam currently training for the permanent diaconate under the new program for the northern province led by Sean Hall and Chris Fallon. We are being trained for a specific ministry, not an extension of anything, as reinstituted by Vatican IIAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09702818723386019249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-79168764089937348072017-02-17T09:33:13.272+00:002017-02-17T09:33:13.272+00:00Thank you for commenting. I think the Permanent Di...Thank you for commenting. I think the Permanent Diaconate can have a place, but not as an extension of lay ministry so as to eliminate the presbyterate.<br />God Bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-39784302294218972912017-02-15T20:30:59.792+00:002017-02-15T20:30:59.792+00:00Salford do not have a permanent diaconate and will...Salford do not have a permanent diaconate and will not have for another three years at leastAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09702818723386019249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-83522399893382308492017-02-13T16:55:43.469+00:002017-02-13T16:55:43.469+00:00Thank you, Sixupman.
I think there is a very real ...Thank you, Sixupman.<br />I think there is a very real need for cooperating with the people of God; priests cannot do everything alone. The problem is we are heading in the direction of priests doing nothing but sacraments, like visiting magic men. That is an abandonment of their role as shepherds.It seems to me that the anti-clericalsim of the French Revolution has triumphed within the Church by the hand of the Church's members. I can only think it has come about from those who clergy who experience themselves as having a position of power, rather than a position of responsibility; a responsibility for which they have to answer to God. Those who see their role as one of responsibility are less likely to 'pass the buck' by ditching those responsibilities into the hands of the laity who have their own responsibility of being the leaven in the world. <br />God bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-23929915488231096632017-02-13T16:28:16.544+00:002017-02-13T16:28:16.544+00:00Salford is on a similar track. Promotion of the l...Salford is on a similar track. Promotion of the laity and Permanent Diaconate and clergy to scurry-around Confecting the Sacrament - as in your final paragraph. You will also create divergent teaching within different parish groups - Protestantism?<br /><br />Glad to see you are still in there batting!Sixupmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12486627001579821658noreply@blogger.com