tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post8796437982597349800..comments2023-10-05T10:29:39.439+01:00Comments on Catholic Collar And Tie: The Novus Ordo: An Authentic Expression of the Faith?Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09049074568745678686noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-47970809691569495022013-12-22T10:41:25.193+00:002013-12-22T10:41:25.193+00:00Thank you for your comment, Dorothy.
I shall respo...Thank you for your comment, Dorothy.<br />I shall respond in a new post when time permits.<br />God bless you and yours.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-27203965465255257742013-12-22T09:41:30.889+00:002013-12-22T09:41:30.889+00:00Father, I wonder how you can say there is an authe...Father, I wonder how you can say there is an authentic expression of the Faith in the New Mass when there are significant differences. For example, there is the direction the priest faces; the use of lay readers, extraordinary ministers, reception of Holy Communion in the hand while standing, to say nothing of the use of English. All of these give a very different feel to the New Form of Mass, and I prefer the new Mass because of these changes.<br /><br />Dorothy DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-66972815207073966612013-12-18T11:18:21.586+00:002013-12-18T11:18:21.586+00:00Thank you for your comment Adrian.
I am not liturg...Thank you for your comment Adrian.<br />I am not liturgical scholar either, but to my knowledge the history of the liturgy in its early days is shrouded in mystery. I may be wrong but I am not sure the Anaphoras without a consecration formula were well accepted (or at all) by the Church. Even Canon II of the New Missal, said to be from Hippolytus, has been discovered to be unlikely one that was actually used for the Eucharist but simply a model Hippolytus gave. <br />Your note about how easily the folk would have taken to a low Mass is an interesting line of thought to pursue, though we are talking their of a change in celebration of the one Rite, not as change in the Rite itself. The offering of Mass by presbyters is also an interesting point. This is complicated too though, since prior to Vatican II we did not see the episcopate as a further ordination but as a consecration to the office, with Trent having define seven steps to the priesthood, not eight steps to the presbyterate. Indeed, there are occasions in Church history where Abbots who were not consecrated Bishops were given permission by the Holy See to ordained their own monks to the presbyterate. <br />It is all very complicated and to be honest, beyond my scope of knowledge so I stand to be corrected/informed by the more knowledgeable in the Church...<br /><br />Once again, many thanks for your stimulating and insightful comment.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-46122980446918593362013-12-17T23:25:53.925+00:002013-12-17T23:25:53.925+00:00An extremely sensible and well-considered post, Fa...An extremely sensible and well-considered post, Father. People who know more about the history of liturgy than I do point out that ancient rites can be found (Addai and Mari and so on) that do not include things we consider essential. I know some rites do not have a recognisable epiclesis and I believe there is one that even lacks the Institution narrative (rather like S John's Gospel, in fact). Like you, I prefer the Tridentine rite - but mass-goers in earlier centuries would be shocked by a low mass because the only 'proper' way to celebrate the mysteries was a fully sung High Mass; and, even earlier still, I'm sure there were people who were very doubtful about presbyters celebrating mass in place of the Bishop - is it valid, has he the sacramental power, isn't this all a step too far? It is interesting to consider what the irreducible minimum for a legitimate rite actually would be.Adrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533152787340723191noreply@blogger.com