tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post712539212884471463..comments2023-10-05T10:29:39.439+01:00Comments on Catholic Collar And Tie: Thoughts on why folk may be disappointed and pleased that the SSPX failed to sign an agreement with Rome...Andrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09049074568745678686noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-86534180196964384072014-01-30T10:26:39.740+00:002014-01-30T10:26:39.740+00:00Thanks again for this.
I still cannot see which do...Thanks again for this.<br />I still cannot see which doctrine the SSPX is said to have denied, since we are told Vatican II proclaimed no new doctrine. It still appears to me that the SSPX is simply rejecting new pastoral disciplines, and even though they may be in dispute with some teachings upon which those disciplines are based, the teachings are not dogma.<br />I admit that I have not read any declaration from Rome which specifies the dogmas over which they are in error over; if you can provide a source or link I would be grateful to have it.<br />God bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-26575999268066017772014-01-28T20:10:33.052+00:002014-01-28T20:10:33.052+00:00The point I was trying to make is that the claim t...The point I was trying to make is that the claim that the SSPX hold to all dogmatic teachings is the position of the SSPX, it is NOT the position of Rome. This was made clear by Pope Paul VI, Pope John Paul II and more recently Pope Benedict. It is a misconception that the 'SSPX question' is simply about Vatican Two or the New Mass. Bertrand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-2870688450177832972014-01-27T15:13:16.295+00:002014-01-27T15:13:16.295+00:00Thank you for your comment.
Rome may hold that th...Thank you for your comment.<br /><br />Rome may hold that the SSPX is denying the Primacy of the Pope, but I suspect the SSPX would say they reject the way that primacy is being exercised, which is a different matter altogether. The heavy-handed way in which Rome has dealt with the FFI has only given the SSPX something to hold up, should they wish to, as an example of the oppressive way the Roman Primacy is being exercised today.<br />God bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-24197882866235739462014-01-27T15:08:05.334+00:002014-01-27T15:08:05.334+00:00Thank you, viterbo.
May God bless and guide all wh...Thank you, viterbo.<br />May God bless and guide all who are working for the truth, on both sides.<br />God bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-35877789387997206762014-01-27T14:37:39.960+00:002014-01-27T14:37:39.960+00:00"Given that the SSPX denies no revealed Truth..."Given that the SSPX denies no revealed Truth and recognises the legitimacy of the post-Vatican II Popes, the Society could be given canonical recognition today. We may wonder what prevents this."<br /><br />I'm afraid it isn't a 'given' that the SSPX denies no revealed truth.<br /><br />Indeed, the position of Rome is that their stance effectively denies the doctrine of the primacy of the Pope. This was made clear by Pope John Paul II in 'Ecclesia Dei' I wonder how many people are aware that in condemning Archbishop Lefebvre in 1988, Pope John Paul II cited Vatican One!<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-6616858678021283822014-01-27T10:53:37.283+00:002014-01-27T10:53:37.283+00:00'the fulless of grace and truth entrusted to t...'the fulless of grace and truth entrusted to the Church'. who would believe this is vii the way the truths found outside the Faith idea is promoted? i think we are becoming 'dessensitized to truth' and lies in equal measure. things have come along way in a short time if there are Catholics who really believe the penny-catechism is harmful to one's spiritual health.<br /><br />God bless, all who work to re-sensitize us to truth and cut through the haze trying to separate us from our foundations and scatter us.Our Lady of Good Success-pray for us.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14746510579669229511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-42256638843381859022014-01-26T10:28:00.184+00:002014-01-26T10:28:00.184+00:00Thank you for the comment, Jacobi.
I agree with yo...Thank you for the comment, Jacobi.<br />I agree with you; if the SSPX is suspended it cannot also be in schism; we don’t suspend schismatics! As for the ambiguities, these have now been acknowledged by Cardinal Kasper of all people, and have become known as Vatican II-speak (double talk) and they are very regrettable. <br />Finally, the liberals do seem to exert great influence; I think this is the result of all of us –hierarchy and laity- becoming desensitised to truth to varying degrees.<br />God bless you and yours.<br />Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-64466361945511794022014-01-26T10:21:51.082+00:002014-01-26T10:21:51.082+00:00Thank you again.
The sacrifice (validity confected...Thank you again.<br />The sacrifice (validity confected) cannot be other than Catholic; it brings to us the same Lord offering the same Sacrifice and obtaining for us the same graces. The liturgy which surrounds the Sacrifice is not the best but cannot be entirely Protestant in that it contains the Roman Canon. <br />And yes, the SSPX fights from and for Tradition, but like Dollinger et al after Vatican I, might become entrenched. We can still fall off the Barque of Peter port or starboard, after all.<br />God bless you and yours.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-70967422029292395312014-01-26T10:13:23.519+00:002014-01-26T10:13:23.519+00:00Thank you, Lynda.
Perhaps I'm seen as an eccen...Thank you, Lynda.<br />Perhaps I'm seen as an eccentric not to be worried about, or perhaps there is more sincerity of heart and respect for truth than many think. Perhaps it is a bit of both!<br />God Bless.Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-73076640544720872992014-01-26T10:09:50.701+00:002014-01-26T10:09:50.701+00:00I am amazed ...speaking the truth so clearly and f...I am amazed ...speaking the truth so clearly and fully. Very few priests do so, and those who do are often persecuted.Lyndanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-14782113292129609732014-01-26T07:53:13.115+00:002014-01-26T07:53:13.115+00:00Father,
I was disappointed the SSPX did not sign ...Father,<br /><br />I was disappointed the SSPX did not sign the agreement. <br /><br />However, they are not schismatic, their doctrinal and liturgical position is pre-Vatican II, and therefore sound.<br /><br />The Vat II documents contain Catholic thinking in Continuity. Doctrine was not changed. But, they also contain deliberately inserted ambiguities and implicit, though perhaps not explicit, errors. This was kept quiet for some decades, but no sensible thinker in the Church nowadays, would deny this.<br /><br />The SSPX reservations about some of the documents could so easily be accommodated. That they are still kept outside the Church is a profound scandal, and the guilt lies with the Vatican authorities involved.<br /><br />Yes, some of them are a bit difficult, I believe, but they are angels compared to the hordes of objective sinners and unashamedly heterodox and therefore schismatic “Catholics” who receive Communion, routinely, each Sunday.<br /><br />The greater scandal now, is that the liberal wing of the Church, in their pride, continue to exert such influence, and the Hierarchy are silent.<br />Jacobihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04743062941733814176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-60414933258093654642014-01-26T00:05:51.450+00:002014-01-26T00:05:51.450+00:00One other thing, if I may: the "angle" f...One other thing, if I may: the "angle" from which the SSPX fights is simply this: Tradition. It is not a political ;position, not an ideological position, not an angle - it is the Truth. How does one become "unable to move on" from that? And "move on" to what? Losing the Faith?Dr. T.T.Coalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160565334087700844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-5948003163883997722014-01-26T00:00:51.788+00:002014-01-26T00:00:51.788+00:00The sacrifice is Catholic? The Consecration is Cat...The sacrifice is Catholic? The Consecration is Catholic, despite being changed from an action into a narrative, but the sacrificial nature of the Mass, including at the Consecration, has been almost completely obscured. The validity of the Novus Ordo is not the issue (assuming the conditions of validity are met, which could be increasingly up for debate). The real issue is, what surrounds the [presumably valid] Consecration? Where is the Catholic theology of the new Mass? And does a valid Consecration really matter in transmitting and teaching the Faith and pleasing God, when everything around it has been altered to please Protestants? Thank you for your reply, I agree that Christ will win out. You might find this article interesting: http://www.catholictruthscotland.com/mass.html (click on "Read an excellent article").Dr. T.T.Coalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160565334087700844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-21901635597828055992014-01-25T23:11:44.244+00:002014-01-25T23:11:44.244+00:00The SSPX see the resemblance to the Protestant Com...The SSPX see the resemblance to the Protestant Communion Services in the new Form of Mass, and it is something many in union with Rome also find disturbing. I think what keeps such folk going is their understanding that while the Rite may be near-Protestant so as to avoid offending Protestants, the Sacrifice is Catholic; and indeed, neither Archbishop Lefebvre nor the SSPX deny the validity of the New Rite.<br />It is always a possibility that when we fight so hard from one angle for so long that we become entrenched and unable to move on; there is surely that possible danger for the SSPX since they are not beyond human frailty.<br />As for the ‘secularised hierarchy’, perhaps many are among those who have become desensitised to Truth in their desire to get on with the world (which isn’t working; the world is now actively persecuting the Faith), but there are signs of hope in an increasing number of more faith-filled bishops and priests. In the end, Truth (Christ) will win out.<br />Fr Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11702725497183621855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-641832955811669058.post-89887846764275171362014-01-25T20:02:51.457+00:002014-01-25T20:02:51.457+00:00What prevents the canonical recognition of the SSP...What prevents the canonical recognition of the SSPX is quite simple: they unequivocally reject the new Mass as a Trojan horse, destructive to the Faith, and they will never celebrate it. In fact, their goal is to destroy it. Do not mistake their unwavering fidelity to Tradition as "hardening" - that smacks of the party line, and it is a dishonest and shallow smear.<br /><br />The new Mass is the platform upon which the Vatican II revolution has been erected; to reject it is to threaten the revolution. Therefore, the rejection must be quashed (see: Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate). But think about it: the stated purpose of the new Mass is to avoid offending Protestants. Who in their right Catholic mind could consider, even for a moment, that such a debased cowardly purpose could be pleasing to Our Lord? Yet, apparently, the disoriented secularized hierarchy thinks so, and will continue to think so, I suppose, until the Consecration of Russia is performed.Dr. T.T.Coalshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160565334087700844noreply@blogger.com